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Frontlines / Christians at Work : The Financial Marketer

In this edition of Frontlines, Gavin Matthews spoke to William Rugg, in the City of London where the financial sector provides some unique opportunities for Christian witness.

Solas: Hi William, how are you?

WR: Great, thankyou.

Solas: Before we explore what it means to be a Christian in your workplace, tell us a little about your job? What are your roles and responsibilities?

WR: I work for Rathbones, which is a wealth management company where I write and edit content for our clients and for the general public as part of our marketing strategy. So I am a writer and editor, working in the financial world. So I am not a typical ‘city worker’ but I work in the communications side of the business.

Solas: What’s the best part of your job? What gives you job satisfaction?

WR: One of the best things is to see the tangible results of my work at the end of the day. Sometimes it might be the production of a nice glossy report that I’ve helped to write, edit or produce. It’s great to see that being completed and then people reading it and responding to it. A lot of people don’t have that tangible-aspect to their work – so that is something I value. I really enjoy writing being at my desk, and getting my head down to work!

Solas: How much of what you do is on line and how much in print?

WR: Well, since lockdown it has all been digital. But I used to produce a couple of long-form printed reports in magazine-style per year. Maybe we will go back to that, it remains to be seen what the ‘new normal’ will be like.

Solas: What kind of challenges does your field of work present – and does your Christian faith help you to navigate those?

WR: Just as in any workplace, it’s human interaction that brings about many of the challenges. Relationships can sometimes be difficult and I think that working in the City, perhaps especially in asset management, there are some forceful personalities around. That’s probably true of a lot of workplaces, but is perhaps particularly so in the City. So, the challenge is to navigate those relationships and – as a Christian – to be “salt and light” and to be distinct in the way that I treat people. As I mentioned, I like to get my head down and get on with my work, but the challenge for me, as a Christian is to be there, every day, as an ambassador for Christ. In seeking to make him known, relationships must be built and invested in because that’s where the opportunities come up. The fact that in this environment some of the people are a bit more forthright can actually be a good thing, because that presents opportunities to talk about my faith.

Solas: And does your faith also affect the way that you go about doing the work itself?

WR: One of the biggest things for me is the attitude I take to work. My job is to serve my boss, the company and our clients, and those people in my team who I line-manage. Jesus himself said, “I came not to be served but to serve”, so he inspires me to see serving others as a very important thing. So I try to bring a servant-hearted attitude to my work. Beyond that I seek to glorify God in my work. That means that there is this amazing purpose to my work, because I want to honour Him in what I do. Ultimately, even though I am serving a company and clients – I am working for God and that work opens doors for my witness about Him to others. I want people to see that I am motivated by something which is beyond this visible world, that’s what I ultimately want people to notice and to know more about.

Solas: I’m aware that the folks you work with know that you are a Christian. What have reactions to your faith been like?

WR: Well, I haven’t had any direct “push-back” to my faith in my current role. In my previous job in a different firm, I had a colleague who was a professed atheist and was very strong in his views and used to love to debate things. I really enjoyed those conversations even though I never persuaded him to change his mind! Generally while there is some underlying hostility to what Christians believe, that constant veneer of British politeness means that you often don’t really know where people stand. When I have put my head above the parapet and sent out invitations to the whole company to events where we are seeking to share the gospel, I’ve had people come up to me and say things like, “I’m not interested personally, but well done for standing up for being a Christian.” There have been many positive reactions from people who recognize that it took some courage. Other people have been encouraged by it too.  A couple of folks have said to me, “I am so grateful for you doing this, I am a Christian but I have never stood up and made myself known as a Christian at work – and you’ve really encouraged me to do that.” So they’ve joined our prayer and Bible-study group too now. So there have been some very positive responses from Christians and non-Christians to my faith.

Solas: Did you have to get permission to run events in the office like Christianity Explored? Or to email everyone in the office to invite them? How does that work?

WR: We’re really blessed at Rathbones because the attitude of the human resources department is that if you want to put on an event for colleagues you can as long as it is something that everyone feels welcome to – regardless of what their faith is. Of course that is absolutely the very thing that we want to do, to make everyone feel welcome and not make the Christian event exclusive or only open to Christians. So we are delighted to hold events on the basis that they are for everyone.

That’s very different from previous places where I have worked which have been at the opposite end of the spectrum. In the asset management company I used to work for, the policy was that there could be no religious activity in the building of any kind. We couldn’t even use a conference room at lunch time for a prayer meeting. So I wrote an email to the CEO and said to him that there are a group of Christians in the company who would like to hold a carol service to invite colleagues along to – and I invited him to do one of the readings! When he said, “yes – great idea” then we had some backing, and so we used a church close to the office and were able to invite people from work along.

Solas: And is Rathbones a large company?

WR: There’s about a thousand people who work here, across the UK, of whom around five-hundred are in the London office where I’m based.

Solas: And your workplace Christian group..?

WR: There’s about half a dozen of us, and the Mark study group has recently doubled from four to eight people.

Solas; And you were able to run a Christianity Explored course there?

WR: Yes, that’s right. It was actually after lockdown had started so we had to do that one online. But the wonderful thing about that was that a lot of the people who came to that were from the regional offices – whereas previously we’d really only focussed on the London office. Lockdown has made us expand our horizons and think beyond just the local office.

Solas: and you also mentioned dialogue-style events. How did they work?

WR: Well the most recent one took place at Easter. Lots of London churches and their lunchtime ministries work together on a mission called “Questions for Life” every Easter. They sent out a list of speakers who were available to support groups like ours. So we had a speaker come in and we had tea and scones sent out to colleagues in their homes and called the event “Tea with Jesus!” and the talk was about Jesus being the bread of life. Then there was a chance for dialogue, discussion and Q&A. It was really informal and it was from that some more people joined our Mark study group.

Solas: What reactions have there been at work to your Christian group in the office, praying, reading the Bible, and inviting them to events? Have any objections been raised?

WR: There were no objections raised that I am aware of. I know of some Christians who have been approached by other colleagues who are very hostile to Christianity who have been given a hard time; but I haven’t myself. I sent out the email to the whole company to our latest event, and that’s around 1,000 people – but there is a lot of apathy about. I got something between ten or twenty responses to that email and they were all positive. People came along and there was good follow up from it too. Christianity Explored was especially good for that – people had loads of really good questions.

Solas: You are clearly very active in sharing your faith, and not being a hidden Christian. Tell me what motivates you to share your faith with others like this?

WR: Let me preface my answer by saying that doing so takes me right outside my comfort zone! But when I think about the fact that my deepest need is for forgiveness of my sins – and the way that Jesus met that need at immense personal cost to himself; then evangelism flows out of a sense of love for Jesus and everything he’s done for me. I also believe that the forgiveness of sins is my friends and colleagues deepest need too. Without Christ, my colleagues are lost – and I want to be like Jesus in his love for the los. It’s all too easy to lose that perspective and just get on with the work, but everyone’s deepest need is for the forgiveness of their sins (whether they realise that or not). That’s what Jesus offers  – and they are not going to know that unless someone shares it with them.

Solas: What advice would you give to a young Christian entering this field of work who wants to stay faithful to Christ there?

WR: Well the first thing is to take the earliest opportunity to make yourself known as a Christian – don’t hide it! Then pray – obviously! One really good piece of advice I was given by my pastor as I started in the workplace was to pray that God would put another Christian in my path. From there you can pray together, for others, and for your witness. That happened, I met another Christian at work, we started praying together and it grew until we were putting on event and carol services and things. Ask God to send you another Christian and to give you boldness in conversation!

Solas: Thankyou so much – there is so much in there to encourage and inspire!

WR: Thanks Gavin!

 

The Cedarwood Festival

Although the Cedarwood Festival is a relative newcomer to the UK’s Christian calendar, it has already made its mark as a great event where Christians from across the churches gather for worship, teaching, fellowship, prayer and unity in the North of England. Solas has had the privilege of partnering with Cedarwood over the last couple of years, which has of course, meant working both in person and online.

Cedarwood Festival Director, David Stretton-Downes said, “We were delighted to welcome Andy Bannister from Solas back to the Q&A panel team for Cedarwood Festival this year, with streaming of the live event taking place non-stop for 12 hours, from a secret forest location in the north of England. Questions ranged from Covid19 and ethics to Islam and politics, and it was fantastic to be able to partner in the gospel again – all be it online!”

In the live Q&A sessions, Andy Bannister was joined by Chris Sinkinson from Moorlands College, and hosted by Karen Todd and David Stretton-Downes. You can see these sessions online below:

 

Cedarwood Festival is really looking forward to July 2022, when they will be able to welcome all their guests back to the festival in person. The team are already hard at work planning the programme and preparing the venue. Details are always on hand at www.cedarwoodfestival.com and tickets are already available here.

Andy Bannister and Solas will be at Cedarwood Festival 2022 and are really looking forward to it again. If you are there, please do come and say hi to Andy or anyone else from the Solas team. We’re really looking forward to it! See you there.

Are There Two Different Gods in the Old and New Testaments?

There is a common assumption that the Old Testament God is one of judgment and rules and yet, in the New Testament, God appears to be all about love and grace. So does the Bible present two contradictory pictures of God? In this episode of Short Answers, Gareth Black invites us to consider on what basis we might make this assumption and whether a closer look at the biblical text itself might challenge this assumption of inconsistency.

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Short Answers is a viewer-supported video series: if you enjoy them, please help us continue to make them by donating to Solas. Visit our Donate page and choose “Digital Media Fund” under the Campaign/Appeal button.

The Risk Gap

Some years ago I was given the opportunity to move from my home in Northern Ireland and spend two years living and studying in Oxford. I had been offered a place to read for a theology masters at the university, as well as a position on an evangelism training programme run by a Christian apologetics centre in the city that I would do alongside my academic studies. I can remember being utterly flattered and enchanted by the opportunity: Here I was being invited to study at arguably the world’s most prestigious university; to be taught and mentored by people whom I regarded to be among the world’s leading Christian evangelists and apologetic thinkers. Yet when the romantic fantasies of Oxford’s dreaming spires faded and I sobered up to what the practical realities of going would demand, the inconvenient truth that the whole enterprise was actually a huge risk dawned on me rather uncomfortably. There was the professional and financial risk: Living and studying in Oxford would cost tens of thousands of pounds and going would mean abandoning both a job I enjoyed and an stable income, as well as having no guarantees of future employment once my studies were complete. There were the academic and psychological risks: Would I have the ability and resilience to cope with the intellectual and emotional challenges of so rigorous an academic environment? There was the relational risk: Due to circumstances beyond our control, my wife was unable to join me in Oxford for the first year. What pressures might this bring to our fledgling marriage and would we be able to cope? And there was even the faith risk: I had heard horror stories of deeply sincere believers who had had their faith shipwrecked when studying theology at top secular universities. How would my faith fair in the inevitable crucible of being confronted with ideas and arguments contrary to what I had hitherto believed?

As I crossed the Irish Sea heading for Oxford that September morning I had no idea what the answers to these questions would be. There were no guarantees that it would all work out positively, no assurances that I would not need to come home after one term to search for a new job and face the embarrassment of needing to explain the situation to people – some of whom had financially supported my going. Thankfully, none of these fears were realised and what transpired into the five years that my wife and I spent in Oxford proved to be the most beneficial and formative season of our lives so far. Yet it was an experience that we would never have known had we not been prepared to embrace the opportunity in spite of the inherent risks. As I left Ireland for Oxford that first day, all I had was an open door of opportunity, the promise that God would be with me, and a sense that this was what the Lord wanted me to do even though it didn’t come with any certifications that it would all work out. But it was enough. Like Moses (Ex. 3:12), I would have to discover in retrospect that this was precisely what God wanted me to do – and not because the entire experience was smooth or simple!

In many ways, Christian evangelism is a lot like this. There is simply no getting around the fact that public witness to Jesus is an inherently risky affair – no matter how gifted or experienced we might be. There is simply no guarantee that people will react positively to the Gospel or, indeed, to us as bearers of it. Jesus forewarned his disciples that even though God himself had specifically chosen them to bear his fruit in the world, many in that world would both hate and even persecute them on account of his name (Jn. 15:16-16:4). When they then began their witness to the world there were, of course, many who became followers of Jesus. Yet the New Testament is also painfully honest that they were also regularly maligned, misrepresented, socially ostracised and even imprisoned for communicating a message considered an offence to most Jews and foolishness to Gentiles (1 Cor. 1:23). If the absence of risk or the guarantee of a positive response had been a prerequisite for the apostles taking up the Great Commission they would have never left the Upper Room in Jerusalem. But, instead, they were utterly convinced that God has demonstrated His appointment of Jesus Christ as Lord and they were left in no uncertain terms by that Jesus that they have been given a mandate to take the message of His Lordship to the world, whatever the personal cost or risks. They were, therefore, fully persuaded that Christianity was public Good News. In their own words: ‘we cannot help speaking about what we have seen and heard’ (Acts 4:20).

Nothing much has changed on this front in the two thousand years since their witness: Jesus is still Lord and his command that his disciples publicly witness to the Gospel remains unchanged. Yet doing so continues to harbour various kinds of risk. There is the reputational risk: that once people discover our Christianity they will inevitably think less of us, either because we are in their eyes irrational, or just plain weird, or even because we are committed to certain values or ethics that they consider to be, at best, on the wrong side of history or, at worst, dangerously dehumanising. There is the professional risk: the legitimate concern that any conversations with colleagues about faith could be interpreted as proselytising and land us in trouble with the Human Resources department. There is also what we might call the counterproductive risk to the Gospel: this is the concern that some people have that, if they do try to evangelise, they fear that they will do such a bad job of it that they will actually be counterproductive to someone’s openness to Christianity – perhaps only confirming rather than debunking stereotypes – and, ultimately, creating more work for the Holy Spirit by compounding the confusion or scepticism of the person they share the Gospel with through their limitations and mistakes.  Add to these dynamics the new phenomenon of cancel culture, where any individual can be socially no-platformed because of something they said or did decades ago (even if it wasn’t in any way controversial at the time!), as well as the ways we have been perennially educated to approach the risks of Covid-19 over the last year. It’s probably no wonder then that the Risk Gap remains one of the biggest impediments we have to engaging in evangelism.

So what can we do to avoid allowing these inherent risks in Christian evangelism to hinder us from sharing the Good News of Jesus with others?

First, we need to continually remind ourselves that even though evangelism doesn’t come with a guarantee of success, it does come with the guarantee of God’s help and presence. Jesus personally promised that as you ‘Go therefore and make disciples of all nations…’, He will be ‘…with you always, to the very end of the age’ (Matt. 28:18-20). When our hearts and minds are in danger of being unnerved by the prospect of evangelism, we need to marinade our perspective in the assurance Jesus gave that a Helper would – and now has – come who would be the very ‘Spirit of truth’, sent from God the Father to stand alongside us in bearing witness to Christ. In that sense, no matter what our abilities or experience, we will only ever be Junior Counsel to the Senior Advocate that God has given in presenting the world with the case for Christ. We are, therefore, never alone in witnessing endeavours. Whether it’s in the staff room, at the gym, in the Sixth Form Centre, in university halls, at the pub with colleagues after a long working week, on the sports field, or around the kitchen table, the moment we open our mouths to communicate Jesus the most experienced, empowered and effective evangelist God ever has – or ever will – give the world is by our side supporting and enabling us. In fact, even if we should find ourselves unexpectedly hauled before authorities because of our faith, Jesus commands us that we are not to be anxious about how we will defend ourselves or what we shall say, “for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very moment what you ought to say” (Luke 12:11-12). Though such occasions will come with inevitable pressures and maybe even some pain, we will always be able to say like Paul: ‘The Lord stood with me and strengthened me, so that through me the message might be fully proclaimed and all the Gentiles might hear it’ (2 Tim. 4:17).

Second, the risks of evangelism ought to motivate us into taking very seriously our personal responsibility in preparing ourselves for effective witness. God is not going to bypass our personalities, learning and preparation in helping us to communicate the Gospel persuasively to people. Instead, he will work with and alongside these qualities in our lives at whatever level they might be. It’s important that we don’t misinterpret verses like Luke 12:11-12 (mentioned above) and presume that, because Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit will teach us what to say in those situations, we don’t really need to make a big effort in training or preparing ourselves in evangelism. Let’s be clear: Luke 12:11-12 is talking about a very specific context where individuals are suddenly forced to stand before very powerful and intimidating people to give account for their faith; a situation where people don’t have any opportunity to think, pray or prepare anything. Yet even in these very specific contexts, it is unlikely that in bringing to mind what we ‘ought to say’ the Holy Spirit will circumvent our minds, knowledge or personalities and hotwire us with information or skillsets we otherwise didn’t possess. It is far more likely that, in such moments, the help that the Holy Spirit will offer is to alleviate our anxieties, enabling us to recall relevant things to say that we have previously learned, and endow us with the ability to process and communicate the right things at the right times in these unnerving situations. So we need to be extremely careful about overstating exactly how God will help us in our evangelism communication, particularly if our doing so is largely an excuse to avoid ourselves putting in some important thought and work to better prepare ourselves. The Holy Spirit certainly didn’t override the Apostle Peter’s personality and mind when he found himself having to give an account of his association with Jesus on the night that Jesus was arrested. Peter’s personality and lack of preparation was fully – and painfully – exposed in this situation. Perhaps that’s why he would later urge Christians to “always be prepared to give an answer to anyone who asks you a reason for the hope within you; yet do it with gentleness and respect’ (1 Peter 3:15).

So, although God has promised to be with us and help us in our evangelism, this does not in any way undermine the expectation that God has of us to each actively and continually prepare ourselves for Christian witness in accordance with our own personalities and abilities. God will certainly assist us in this endeavour but He will not do it for us, and as the well-known platitude goes: ‘If you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.’ This might mean that we take an online programme in evangelism training; it might mean that we attend or even host an evangelism training day or series of evenings at our local church (like Solas’ Confident Christianity conferences); it might mean we identify certain questions or particular sticking points to faith that our friend or colleague harbours (i.e. Doesn’t science disprove God?; If God, why suffering?; or Isn’t God anti-LGBT+?) and then make a concerted effort to research the topic so that we can discuss it in an informed way; it might even mean that we sign-up to either host or support an evangelistic event or an Alpha or Christianity Explored course, simply so that we can see and learn from evangelistic conversations as they happen. There are all kinds of ways and means to developing ourselves for more effective evangelism – and the learning process never stops. The problem for many Christians is that it never really gets started and, as a result, they never develop the confidence to begin a conversation about faith with someone who is not a Christian and may potentially push back.

One final way that I feel we might be able to mitigate our fears over the potential risks in evangelism is to not do it alone. When I was contemplating going to Oxford, one of the things that really helped to mitigate my fears over the potential risks was to know that other people believed in my going and were prepared to invest in it also. Somehow the risks didn’t seem so intimidating when I knew that others were prepared to take them on with me. It’s the same with evangelism. We should never try to do evangelism alone. Even if it is just having one or two people aware of your situation and praying for you as you take opportunities and hold conversations, there will be a liberating sense that the risk is not all on you. Ideally, however, we want to do our evangelism with others. There is a reason why Jesus sent his disciples out to proclaim the kingdom in pairs. It is much easier to become overwhelmed and discouraged when you feel it’s all on you. Far better to identify even one other person that you can begin to take on evangelistic initiatives with. This is especially true in professional contexts. I have met several Christians in the business world who, when they thought they were on their own, felt that any form of evangelism in their workplace or among colleagues outside their workplace was simply impossible. Finding even just one other Christian colleague with whom they could talk to, who shared their evangelistic burden, and who was prepared to stand with them and try some evangelistic initiatives was a game-changer, however. I remember hearing about this exact scenario in the London headquarters of the financial services institution Goldman Sachs. A Christian employee wanted to find a way to begin some form of evangelism among colleagues but felt completely overwhelmed at the thought of pioneering it alone. Then she met one other Christian employee, then two, then three, and on the day that she told me the story we had just finished an evangelistic lunch bar in the office premises attended by thirty colleagues. Who are the colleagues, the friends, the other members of your church who share your vision for evangelism and are prepared to get some skin in the game and take the risk with you? It’s worth trying to identify them.

When I think of the challenge of taking risks in the context of our obedience to God, my mind often goes to one of my favourite characters in the entire Bible: the Moabite Ruth. Having come to Bethlehem in order to support her broken and disillusioned mother-in-law Naomi, Ruth takes the initiative – like born ought of practical necessity – to go into the local harvest fields and glean (Ruth 2). The reality was that this venture involved substantial risk: foreigners would often find themselves unwelcome in such contexts and could be assaulted by the other indigenous labourers; despite the Levitical command to allow the poor to glean at the edges of the fields, Ruth could have been accused of stealing; harvest fields were also easy contexts for attractive young women to be sexually assaulted. Stepping into field that day bore huge personal risk for Ruth but she did it out of steadfast love to her mother-in-law. Yet it was in that field that she met Boaz, the lord of the harvest. She could never have known it at the time, but the difficult decision to take the necessary risk of stepping into that field that day changed the course of not only her life, but of the history of Israel. Might it be the same for us as we embrace the risk of evangelism? Might it be that in the calculated decision to obey Christ and step into his harvest field that there we might also encounter the Lord of the Harvest and, in so doing, discover that he is our kinsman, fully committed to protecting, supporting and resourcing us about we labour for him? Might it be that there in the midst of his field, despite the inherent risks, God begins to weave a tapestry with our lives that will not only benefit us, but result in the saving of many others lives? We’ll never know unless we get out there.

Around four years ago I was leading an evangelism team in Ealing, West London. One afternoon, as we crossing the street to make our way to the local shopping centre to do evangelistic carol singing, I noticed a young man on a moped who had stopped at the side of the road and seemed to be shouting things towards members of our team. I kept my eye on him from the rear of the group, worried that he was trying to cause trouble. As I passed him, I could see that he wasn’t being antagonistic – though he was certainly intrigued – and something in me was prompted to engage him in conversation. His name was Raheem. He was a delivery driver for a local takeaway and had recently dropped out of a psychology degree at Exeter University. As I told him why we were in the area, the conversation quickly moved to God and faith. He had grown up in a nominally Muslim family but had genuine interest in Christianity from a psychology point of view. After about thirty minutes of conversation, I asked him, ‘Raheem, have you ever read the Bible? Do you have any idea what it’s about?’ He replied, ‘I have never read the Bible, but I’ve always wanted to have one and read what it says?’ I asked him whether he would read the bible if I could get him a copy before we left each other that day. He enthusiastically agreed. Eventually we made our way back over to the local Baptist church where the team had had lunch. I found him a bible and began to open it up at John 3:16 and, as simply as I could, explain the Gospel to him. He understood the fundamental concepts and was fascinated by the character of Jesus. After a couple of hours of conversation, secret internal praying where I asked God for his help and wisdom with what to say, and trying to discern whether it was appropriate to ask, I said Raheem, ‘Would you be interested in receiving the eternal life that Jesus offers you today?’ He enthusiastically affirmed that he was, and after some explanation I led him in a prayer to accept Christ into his life. In the following days we got him plugged into a local church and he began his unexpected journey of discipleship.

I conclude with this story not because my evangelism is always – or even often – this successful, but because it taught me a lesson about what can do if we are willing to take the risk of engaging people with the Gospel. When I first saw Raheem, the last thing I expected was that I would be seeing him become a Christian within a few hours. I didn’t know if his intentions were sinister; I didn’t know if he was just looking to waste my time; I didn’t know if he’d have any interest whatsoever in Jesus. But something told me to engage him and the rest, as they say, is history. I have no idea what would have happened if I had allowed myself to be intimidated out of talking to him because of the potential risks. And neither do you when it comes to engaging people in your life. All we can do is try to be obedient when the Lord of the Harvest invites us into his field. But, in that field, what adventures may ensue? Jesus once said in Luke 12:8-9: ‘I tell you, whoever publicly acknowledges me before others, the Son of Man will also acknowledge before the angels of God. But whoever disowns me before others will be disowned before the angels of God.’ If we really believe this, perhaps we need to ask ourselves a sobering question: Where does the greater risk truly lie: obeying Jesus in evangelism or avoiding evangelism?

Suffering, Persecution and the Gospel – Andy Bannister on the Release International Podcast

Release International are doing great work supporting the persecuted church around the world and helping Christians who enjoy freedom to respond to the issues involved. Their regular podcast is good way into this whole subject, which you can find here. Andy Bannister was a guest on one of their recent editions where they enjoyed a wide ranging discussion. One of the things which came up was the difficult subject of understanding suffering from a Christian perspective – in a context when many of the people Release supports, suffer not because theyhave done wrong, but because they rightly identify with Jesus.

Click here to access Release International’s podcast series, or play the link below to hear the edition feturing Andy Bannister.

PEP Talk Podcast With Rahil Patel

The life of a Hindu monk can seem extreme–celibacy, poverty, thousands of miles of pilgrimage–but what are they searching for? Today we hear from a former priest about how Christianity met his heart’s desire. He offers some important guidance on how to reach out to others from Eastern religions, when the cultural gap can seem so daunting.

With Rahil Patel PEP Talk

Our Guest

As a Hindu priest Rahil Patel was a renowned international speaker whose spiritual counsel was received by politicians, industrialists and celebrities. His life changed dramatically after encountering the love of Jesus, and he is now involved in ministries at Holy Trinity Brompton, Balham Vineyard Church and the NowBelieve Ministry, a missionary organisation serving in the UK, India and South Africa.

His testimony is available in his book Found By Love: A Hindu priest encounters Jesus.

About PEP Talk

The Persuasive Evangelism Podcast aims to equip listeners to share their faith more effectively in a sceptical world. Each episode, Andy Bannister (Solas) and Kristi Mair (Oak Hill College) chat to a guest who has a great story, a useful resource, or some other expertise that helps equip you to talk persuasively, winsomely, and engagingly with your friends, colleagues and neighbours about Jesus.

Frontlines / Christians at Work : The Scientist

Dr Kyle Matchett doesn’t want to be known just for his work as a leading researcher into Leukaemia, but also for his faith in Jesus Christ, and how that shapes his life. He told Solas’s Gavin Matthews more about his faith and his work in Molecular Immunology.

Solas: Hi Kyle – tell us a little about your job!

KM: I am a Lecturer in Molecular Immunology, and there are three main aspects to my work.

The first is research, which accounts for about 60% of my time. I did my PhD in cancer research and have done a lot of work on breast cancer. I am currently working in leukaemia research, specifically studying Acute Myeloid Leukaemia (AML) which is an especially aggressive type of the disease, mostly occurring in the elderly and children. It is not the most common childhood Leukaemia (which is Acute Lymphoblastic Leukaemia), but is responsible for more childhood deaths. So I have a lot of contact with childhood cancer charities, parents, and doctors seeking to treat the disease. I work closely with the children’s hospital in Dublin which is the centre for the whole of Ireland for this. Our research lab has five full-time staff and students, all doing their particular research for projects, some for PhDs. One of them is working on a drug for a different type of blood cancer, and we are looking to see if we can make it work for AML. We’re also looking to see if statins improve outcomes for patients too. We are also studying in detail the alterations in DNA which drive the disease, cataloguing them and building models to understand the disease process better. I am currently looking at a gene called NRAS, and we’re working with a Californian company to build cell models of the mutations we observe. As the leader of the research project I have responsibility for leading the research and securing funding grants to enable it to happen, so this week we managed to win a grant with Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Centre in New York, who are world leaders in the field. I’m also involved in the leadership of the All-Ireland Cancer Research Centre, which potentially involves around £60million of funding, which is a huge privilege and responsibility for me as someone reasonably young.

The second part of my work is teaching undergraduates. I teach on a number of modules, including a new Biochemistry module that I’ve written. I am also Course Director for two Master’s courses where the students are based in the US for one year. Then there is a pastoral role too as Study Advisor for a group of students.

The third aspect of my work is administration, of labs, staff, funds, grants, conferences, grant reviewing for UKRI, and sitting on various committees such as the All Ireland Cancer Research Council, and I get asked to speak at cancer charity events too.

Solas: So with that varied work of research, teaching and administration what gives you the most job satisfaction?

KM: I really enjoy the variety of my work, it’s important and demanding and hugely worthwhile. The research we are doing has the possibility of completely changing people’s lives. I feel called to this area of work, and to see new breakthroughs in the treatment of cancer. That’s what motivates me.

I also enjoy my working environment at the C-TRIC Research Institute at the Altnagelvin Hospital in Derry/Londonderry. There are all kinds of research projects and trials going on and the hospital is growing too. I love working with students too; it’s great when they really grasp something complex about cancer for the first time, and then ask how they could maybe do a placement in my research group. Then recently I’ve taken on more leadership and management roles and I’ve enjoyed learning how to do that well too, both caring for staff and delivering our goals. I’ve also travelled all around the world with my work – which has been really interesting. So, I really do enjoy my work!

Solas: Tell us something about the challenges you face in your job – and about how your faith in Christ helps you to navigate them.

KM: The biggest challenge these days is balancing the competing claims on my time and energy to make sure that priorities are met. Every morning my inbox is full of messages from people who want my attention; students, grant bodies, papers, results, PhD students. So prioritising what is important is a major challenge. I’d love to say that I’ve cracked that completely, but I haven’t! But one of the things that has really helped me with this is that I don’t turn on my phone in the morning and see all the messages and demands until I have done two things. One is to spend time with God, reading the Bible and praying – including asking for wisdom for day ahead, and the other is spending time with my kids.

Obviously chasing big grants is important, but so too is helping an individual student who is struggling, so I start the day, not with busyness but with trying to listen and discern. The other thing is that in the gospel of Christ there is forgiveness for all my faults too. I know, and God knows that I am not perfect, but God can help me to be faithful with the day that he gives me, and help me to use it well, to achieve a lot and show people love too. I believe God wants me to be a good husband and dad, all of which require investments of time and energy as well.

Tithing has been important for me too. I don’t just mean giving money to the church. I’ve been tithing my time recently too. So, God gets the first part of my day, as I’ve said. But typically I clear my schedule on the first day of every month to pray and sometimes pray and fast too. I am nothing without God, and won’t achieve anything unless God is in it, so I give that time to Him. I pray for the people I work with, and the people I am responsible for too.

Solas: You refer to your work as a calling from God, not just a career choice. Tell us more!

KM: Well initially I wanted to be a teacher and started at teacher training college. But then when I got there I realised it wasn’t’ for me and left. Soon after that I became a Christian, and then went back to university to study Biology. In my final year, I hoped to do a project around sports – but my grades weren’t great and so I didn’t get my first choice. Instead I was allotted a project on bladder cancer research. So I went to do the project rather reluctantly. However, I remember one day in the first week or so there, coming down to my office and it was like my soul was on fire and there was a deep calling – I just loved what I was doing, and knew that this is what I would do for the rest of my life. It was something I don’t think I chose, but was more of a calling. So although I do enjoy my work, it’s not why I do it. It’s more that here is something that God has placed in my hands, and given me the responsibility to do. I genuinely believe that when I die I will give an account of my life to God about what I have done with the talents he has given me. I been very blessed by Him in this work. He’s been very good to me in it. I’ve been awarded over £700,000 of research funding over the last two years, and that is both a blessing from God – and a big responsibility too.  Then I’ve won my faculty and University research prizes this year, then two all-Ireland awards. God is using me in this area of work that He’s called me into. Academically I’m good – but I’m not brilliant, so I’m an ideal person for God to use and show what can be done when we commit ourselves to Him.

Solas: So people at work know you are a Christian, how do they respond to that? Have you had opportunities to share anything of your faith there?

KM: Yes – people are aware that I have a faith, or at least that I go to church! However, a lot of people don’t really know what ‘being a Christian’ actually means. Most people smile and say ‘that’s good’, some ask the odd question such as ‘what church do you go to?’ Some people question why as I scientist I have faith – assuming that two are opposed to each other, and I enjoy talking about that.

I think that as Christians we don’t have to dominate the conversation and control the narrative; it’s so important to listen to people to find out what they believe and why – even if they think what I believe is nonsense. Listening disarms conversations and also reveals people’s hearts and minds. Why they believe what they do is so significant too.

A lot of people are disinterested in my faith, some oppose it, but a few are actively interested in it and that’s where I have had some really good conversations with people at work. A lot of people have had experiences of church or Christians – not all of which have been good experiences, that they want to discuss.

The gospel of Jesus is one of grace – so it’s not that I have to report back to God with an excel sheet, with every person ticked off when they hear about my faith! We’re not called to live like that – but to love our neighbours and speak for God  where he gives us opportunities. I was much quieter about my faith when I first started out. However having been relatively successful when still quite young, people are interested in me. There have been natural conversations, such as opportunities to speak about grace, faith and hope after a recent family bereavement too.

There have also been more planned opportunities as well. When I was asked to speak at my old school’s prize-giving, I agreed to do so. However, I told the school that I’d speak not only about science and cancer research – but also my faith. I told them despite all the various accolades I’ve had; the best decision I ever made was to give my life to Jesus. I was able to tell my story of faith and being led into my career. I said perhaps only three or four sentences about that but that was what people wanted to talk to me about afterwards!

Solas: Why do you want to share Jesus with people?

KM: I find the life of Jesus absolutely captivating – it’s really out of a love for Him. Jesus had the right to be worshipped, but when he came he was an absolute servant. That struck me again last night reading a kids picture Bible storybook with my son. We got to the Garden of Gethsemane and the crucifixion. Jesus loves us so much that he was willing to be mocked, humiliated and suffer for us. The gospel has changed my life, and changed my heart, it’s been incredible and I love talking about that. I want people to be able to experience that and know the freedom of the unconditional love of God the Father. Being a Christian is not about performance, it’s about being loved by God as a son! People today are under so many pressures, and in Matthew 11, Jesus says, “come to me all you who are weary and burdened and I will give you rest” – such an important message for modern life.

Solas: So what advice would you give to a young Christian, entering your field of work – who wants to remains faithful to Christ there?

KM: I’d say identify in your life what is non-negotiable and build all your priorities around those things. You think when you start your career that your life is busy, but it gets busier! For me, prayer and Bible study in the morning before work are non-negotiables. Secondly identify someone who will be a really good mentor for you – someone in a similar professional environment to yourself, managing similar challenges. Thirdly, read leadership books and study for professional development in that area. Then finally don’t neglect prayer and solitude in the middle of an exceptionally busy life. If you really desire to make a difference in this world, then I think this is an important starting point. You can see this in the life of Jesus where he would retreat into the desert. I’m concerned that people thrown into the workplace are bombarded with responsibilities they haven’t been trained to deal with. That shows up professionally, but also spiritually because too many young Christians haven’t experienced good mentoring or discipleship. “Your character should never be playing catch-up with your calling” is a quote that challenges me deeply. Working in science, law, politics, building, teaching – are all callings from God –all of which come at a cost if you do it in a Christlike way, and that is our calling.

Solas: Thanks Kyle – really helpful!

KM: Thanks Gavin

 

Do Christians and Muslims Worship the Same God? Andy on Unbelievable?

Andy Bannister was a guest on Justin Brierley’s popular Unbelievable? programme recently. Andy’s book, “Do Christians and Muslims Worship the Same God?” argues that the Biblical and Quranic conceptions of God are incompatible and so the answer to that question is  a nuanced ‘no’. Archbishop Josiah Idowu-Fearon from the Nigerian Anglican Church takes a different view – arguing that we all worship the one God, in different ways. Justin Brierley brought them together for a discussion around these important issues.

Does Biology Point to God or Atheism?

Does design in biology —especially the presence of what appears to be a carefully engineered biological programming language (DNA) in the heart of every living cell — offer yet another powerful piece of evidence for the existence of God? In this episode of Short Answers, Andy Bannister dives into the world of biology to find out more.

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Short Answers is a viewer-supported video series: if you enjoy them, please help us continue to make them by donating to Solas. Visit our Donate page and choose “Digital Media Fund” under the Campaign/Appeal button.

The Negative Experience Gap 2

Several years ago I had a desire to launch a large youth convention out of my local church in Northern Ireland. The vision for the project was simple, yet ambitious: To create an event where adolescents from across the borough could gather together to encounter God through contemporary worship music, prayer and inspirational bible teaching. At the time, I was heavily influenced by the Passion268 conferences that ran in Atlanta every January and considered that something akin to this – though on a much smaller scale – might be both necessary and possible in my own context. So with my expectations through the roof, and encouraged by the two friends who had been supportive when I shared the vision, I poured my heart and soul over the next few weeks into getting the event off the ground. We called it Resolution, recognising that, next to the Holy Spirit, every successful youth event needed a cool name. Our name seemed fitting given that we planned to hold it a couple of days before the new year, and because the aim of the event was to encourage young people to resolve to follow Christ with their whole hearts, as the great revivalist Jonathan Edwards had done as a teenager.

To say that what actually transpired on the night of our first Resolution event didn’t exactly meet my expectations would be the understatement of the century. I had harboured imaginings of around one hundred young people encountering God enthusiastically, without inhibitions, in an atmosphere of worship and awe. What in reality occurred was a gathering of around seventeen people in a sports hall with awful acoustics and a broken heating system, indulging a makeshift, mediocre praise band and wishing that the speaker would hurry up and finish so that they could get back into their cars to warm up. I was hugely discouraged. I’d invested a lot of time, money, imagination, emotional energy and spiritual expectation into this venture and what transpired was a mere shadow (and a freezing shadow at that!) of what I had hoped for. I locked up the sports hall after the event feeling embarrassed that I had failed and with the only resolution in my mind being that I’d never attempt anything like this again – it simply wasn’t worth the risk!

Fast-forward ten months and one of my friends who had attended that night caught me completely off guard one day by asking: ‘Can we do Resolution again this Christmas?’ Call it peer-pressure, but something in me told me not to dismiss the suggestion despite how negative my former experience had been. So, with a little more time to plan and promote the event this time round, and applying some of the lessons we had learned from the previous year’s mistakes, a few of us set about organising Resolution one more time. What transpired was one of the most memorable and significant evenings in my early Christian life: Several hundred young people turned up (I still don’t know how they all heard about the event); the presence of God was  palpable; young people unashamedly poured out their hearts and voices in praise to Jesus; and scores of students publicly committed their lives to Christ. We continued Resolution biannually for several years after this. It wasn’t always as big or powerful as this second event, but that evening taught me a humbling and invaluable lesson: Negative experiences are no indicator that God wants you to abandon something. Had it not been for the pressure I felt when my friend laid down the expectation that we ought to run Resolution again, I would never have returned to the project; my initial experience was simply too disastrous and personally disappointing. But trying again, with all the sense of foolhardy risk, uncertainty, and personal vulnerability it required prior to what we saw God do that night, was the right thing to do.

It doesn’t take a sage to recognise that each of us have a natural aversion to returning to situations where previously we have had negative experiences. It’s basic human instinct to not put ourselves at risk if we can at all avoid it. And the aphorism once-bitten-twice-shy is no more true than in the context of Christian evangelism. Many believers avoid any kind of personal public witness to Jesus simply because of how unpleasant their previous experiences have been. This might be a product of negative things that we have observed in the name of Christian evangelism: an animated individual effectively shouting the Gospel at high street shoppers through a loud speaker system and in the language of the King James bible perhaps; or the sordid and disingenuous efforts of some evangelist who attempts to emotionally manipulate people into making decisions to follow Christ with all the guile and strategy of a used-car salesman. It may well be that our rightful distaste for many of the methods of evangelism we have observed, as well as our lack of awareness of any truly positive expressions of the practice, forces us to sidestep any opportunities we may have for sharing our faith with others. More often than not, however, the evangelism vacuum that can emerge from negative experiences derive from personal disappointments or senses of failure akin to my first attempt at Resolution. It might be that we plucked up the courage to invite someone to an Alpha course only to be shot down and made to feel like an idiot; we might have genuinely tried our best to share our faith with others only to have been confronted with intimidating questions or assertions that we had zero answers to; we may have been involved in evangelism teams in the past only to have been made to feel inferior by people evidently more confident and competent than ourselves; or it might be that we have a friend or loved one that we have been sharing the Gospel with for years without receiving even a scintilla of interest – let alone spiritual breakthrough – in return. Whatever the specific negative experience(s) might be for us personally, it is important to be aware of it and talk about it with both God and others. At the end of this article, why not take some time to think about what, if any, those negative experiences might be for you? If it helps to reflect upon it by writing your thoughts down in a journal, do so. Then take the experience to the Lord in prayer, as well as perhaps to a trusted friend or Christian leader. God is neither surprised nor disappointed with you because of these experiences. He is a loving Father who longs to hear about it and process it with you so that you can move forward. The first step in that process may simply be to identify and own the experience rather than bury it. As the author Terry Pratchett once said: ‘Before you can kill the monster you have to say its name.’[1]

So if we do find ourselves more than a little evangelism-averse due to negative or disappointing past experiences, what ought we to consider so that we can positively move forward and not allow such incidents to paralyze us with an unhealthy fear or even sense of self-pity? Here are a few thoughts…

First, it is important to remind ourselves that, ultimately, our participation in sharing our faith with others is a matter of obedience, one that transcends our personal experience, whether positive, negative or somewhere in between. Many areas of ethical decision-making in life involve what is often called cost-benefit analysis: we evaluate what the right thing to do is by weighing the expected resulting benefit of doing something against any potential risks or costs that doing so might incur. Christian evangelism is not so consequentialist. The mandate for our evangelism is, in the end, not determined by that evangelism’s outcome, nor our personal experience of it, but by the fact that Jesus commanded us to do it (Matthew 28:18-20). This is not to say that God does not take our experiences and concerns seriously, nor is this reality intended to be used as a rod to spiritually cajole people into sharing their faith by riding roughshod of over their personalities and understandable anxieties. It is simply to say that such personal dynamics and experiences, though extremely important to consider, cannot ultimately be leveraged to circumvent God’s expectation of our public witness. Isaiah was told ahead of time that his witness for God would be universally disregarded (Isaiah 6:9-13), and though Jonah knew his preaching in Nineveh would be hugely successful, he considered this a negative experience because he didn’t want God to be merciful towards his enemies (Jonah 4). Yet none of these realities were legitimate determining factors in whether or not these prophets ought to bear their witness. That came down to one factor alone: God had told them to witness and it was up to them to obey. Our public witness is no less a question of obedience. Imagine getting to heaven and meeting Isaiah – whom tradition tells us was sawn in half for his obedience in witnessing for God – and telling him that, though you claimed that Jesus Christ was your Lord, you disregarded his command to share your faith with others because someone once embarrassed you by turning down your invite to a Christianity Explored course. Awkward.

Though this first consideration might feel like the throwing down of a gauntlet, it is important, secondly, to remember that it is a truth that also offers us a tremendous reassurance: If the most significant factor in whether we get involved in evangelism or not is ultimately faithfulness to Jesus’ command to share the Gospel, it will therefore be the most significant criterion by which God will judge our evangelism. In other words, what God expects of each of us in terms of our evangelism is our faithfulness in obeying his commission to do it, not how ‘successful’ or emotionally fulfilling we may find every occasion of it to be. In the Parable of the Talents in Matthew 25, I am always struck by how both of the good servants receive precisely the same commendation, ‘well done good and faithful servant’ from their master even though, quantitatively speaking, one has produced two and a half times as much as the other.

This deeply encourages me because it implies that, in appraising our service, this master is the kind of auditor who will not merely consider the bottom line of apparent ‘productivity’ in evaluating success, but will both recognise that we have often been given very different levels of ability and opportunity to others. He will judge us according how faithful we have been with the capacities He has given us individually, not in how more or less productive we have been relative to anyone else.

If what God is, in the end, looking for in our evangelism is to be faithful in obeying his command to share our faith in accordance with our personal abilities, opportunities and personalities, this ought to liberate us from the bondage of judging our ‘success’ in, or ‘experience’ of, evangelism by comparing it with others or by holding our efforts up against some other criterion of triumph other than God’s expectation of our humble faithfulness. Many people’s negative experiences in evangelism come from an unhealthy – and, more importantly, ungodly – comparison with others that creates unrealistic expectations that they then judge and often condemn themselves in the light of. Jesus’ yoke is easy and his burden light (Matthew 11:28). Even the great apostle Paul – who would have graduated summa cum laude by any worldly standards of evangelism proficiency – refused to allow himself to be appraised by such standards, knowing that it would only lead to the bondage of pride or shame. Instead Paul said:

…it is required of stewards that they be found faithful. But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by any human court. In fact, I do not even judge myself. For I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God.[2]

This means that we can be patient with ourselves in our evangelistic efforts. We can make mistakes, we can bear disappointments and frustrations, and we can continue steadfast in lovingly sharing our lives and faith with the seemingly uninterested in full assurance that these are not deal-breakers for God. All God ultimately asks of us is to be faithful and allow him to fully disclose the success of our efforts at the right time – a judgement that I believe may well disclose more than a few surprises when we realise just what mysterious triumphs God has achieved with things we once considered disappointments!

Third, remember that any mistakes or weaknesses you may have experienced in our evangelistic efforts don’t define you. It is so common to pluck up the courage to evangelistically put our head above the parapet, only to be dispirited by a negative experience or realise how inadequate we are, and then allow that to dissuade us from ever trying again. Perhaps some other Christian foolishly even made a comment about your abilities that majorly discouraged you? Remember that evangelism is always hard but, like trying anything new, is particularly hard for those who don’t have much experience of it. To expect that we ought to be able to do brilliant evangelism the first few times we try is like someone who watches the Ryder Cup, gets inspired to play golf, and expects to complete 18 holes at the local links course in a round of 62. 99% of the time what will actually happen is that that person will get onto the course and within about two holes discover that playing golf is much harder than it looks on TV. A round of golf can be a very embarrassing and painful encounter in such moments and, speaking from experience, it’s very easy to return home and never want to play again. Christian witness, like golf, is a dynamic enterprise. No one is good at it the first few times they do it, and the only way to overcome our fears and weaknesses is to keep stepping up to the evangelistic tee and taking a swing at it.

When I think of not being discouraged by negative ministry experiences, I think of the figure of John Mark. Although the details are sketchy, it is clear from Luke’s account in Acts that John Mark mistakenly opted to abandon Paul and Barnabas in Pamphylia (Acts 13:13) and return to Jerusalem. Rightly or wrongly, Paul no longer trusted Mark and refused to allow the young man to join them on their second missionary journey when he had returned to them in Acts 15. Barnabas disagreed with Paul’s decision, presumably because he believed in Mark’s potential and was willing to give him another chance, but the dispute led to he and Paul to permanently separate from each other. Talk about a negative experience! If I had been John Mark and knew that the great apostle Paul felt this way about me, I don’t think I’d ever entertain any form of ministry ever again. Thankfully, Mark had Barnabas who believed in him and was willing to patiently and encouragingly support him. Eventually, Mark would serve God alongside Peter (1 Peter 5:13), an experience that equipped him to be the first individual to write a Gospel account, one that now occupies our New Testament canon. And, remarkably, even Paul changed his mind about Mark. At the end of his life, when all others had abandoned him, Paul outlines his needs and gospel priorities to Timothy, one of which was: ‘Get Mark and bring him with you, for he is very useful to me for ministry.’[3] The grace and space that Barnabas gave Mark in allowing him to make mistakes in Christian ministry – to grow through those mistakes rather than in spite of them – proved fundamental to the progress of Christianity, progress of which we, even today, are beneficiaries. All of us need those Barnabas figures in our lives, and especially in our evangelism lives; those people who reflect God’s patience with us in allowing us to grow, all the while completely committed to our realising our full potential. Who might these people be in your life?

Finally, remember that many of the most significant things in life inherently often involve risk and, therefore, the potential for negative experiences. That is not to say, however, that avoiding them is the right course of action, nor that in doing so we will not detrimentally impact us in other unanticipated ways. C.S. Lewis once highlighted this danger in a discussion on the risks inherent to love. As anyone who has ever truly loved will know, loving another person is an innately vulnerable thing to do. Many a person who has offered their heart to another only to, at some point, experience the trauma of having it rejected can understandably become significantly more hesitant about allowing themselves to be put in such a position again. Indeed, should we decide that the only guaranteed way to avoid such painful experiences in the future is to never allow oneself to truly love again. As that lesser-known sage Tina Turner once sang: ‘What’s love got to do, got to do with it? Who needs a heart when a heart can be broken?’

Lewis warns us against the dangers of these myopic approaches to self-protection:

There is no safe investment. To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything and your heart will be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact you must give it to no one, not even an animal. Wrap it carefully round with hobbies and little luxuries; avoid all entanglements. Lock it up safe in the casket or coffin of your selfishness. But in that casket, safe, dark, motionless, airless, it will change. It will not be broken; it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable. The alternative to tragedy, or at least to the risk of tragedy, is damnation.

Sharing Jesus with someone – which is, after all, an act incredible of love in itself – is equally vulnerable. Whatever our experience or apparent levels of success might be been previously, there is simply no guarantee that our next evangelistic opportunity won’t end in rejection, embarrassment or (sometimes worse!) indifference, no matter how proficient a communicator or faithful to the Gospel we might have been. Granted, we may safely avoid these particular negative experiences if we choose to retreat from any meaningful opportunities to share our faith. Yet, as Lewis warns, doing so will not leave us unchanged, but may, in fact, eventually render us both ignorant of, and impervious to, the needs of lost people, as well as impotent to do anything about those needs by directing those people to Jesus. That, by any standard of Christianity, would surely be a far greater tragedy.

So whatever previous experiences of evangelism, let us today, like Peter when he had toiled all night and caught absolutely nothing (Luke 5), be prepared to get back out there and cast the net again simply because our Lord asks us to. For, ultimately, our ethical basis and mandate for doing evangelism is not determined by how successful we can expect to be, nor by any risk-benefit analysis, nor by any guarantee that we won’t experience anything negative, but simply by the fact that our Lord has told us to do so. Even if our evangelism to date has felt very much like having toiled all night and caught nothing, who is to say that our being willing to go back out and cast the net one more time at our Lord’s command, might not on this occasion produce some form of miraculous catch?

[1] Terry Pratchett, Shaking Hands with Death (London: Corgi Books, 2015).

[2] 1 Corinthians 4:2-5, ESV.

[3] 2 Timothy 4:11, ESV.

Andy at The Redeemed Christian Church of God

I had the privilege of speaking at the RCCG (Redeemed Christian Church of God) in Edinburgh, several weeks ago. The RCCG has origins in Africa and is one of many churches with roots outside the UK which have sprung up here in recent years and experienced quite remarkable growth. Churches which have been here for much longer, and ministries like Solas – have not been good at getting connected to some of these newer churches. Apologetics has had a bit of reputation for sometimes being rather exclusively ‘white’, so it was amazing to be invited to minister within the RCCG network and to speak to their men’s group which meets on a Saturday afternoon.

They gave me the topic, “The Cost of Discipleship”. I looked specifically at the way that Christians sometimes run away from evangelism because we have been afraid of the cost. Evangelism can cost you your reputation, can cost life being easy, simple and straightforward whereas keeping our heads down at work is much easier than standing up for the gospel –  which can be tough.

The biblical basis of what I said was Matthew 16: 24-27

24 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. 25 For whoever wants to save their life[f] will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it. 26 What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? 27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.

Then I told them some stories of Christians who have experienced persecution. Because of their faith in Christ. I also referred them to our recent webinar with Eddie Lyle and Ron Boyd-MacMillan from Open Doors and linked them to the challenge that those persecuted believers bring to those of us in the West where perhaps following Jesus has been a bit too comfortable.

Importantly of course, when Jesus calls us to take up our cross, he isn’t calling us to do something that he hasn’t first done himself. He carried his cross and gave everything for us, which gives him the right to ask us to do the same. It was on that basis that I encouraged the men to step out in boldness in their workplaces , universities. We don’t need Christians who are going to do anything stupid, but we do need to be bold in talking about our faith and clearly identifying as followers of Christ.

We then had a brilliant and lively time of Q&A, which was terrific. Working with the RCCG was a new partnership for us at Solas, and one I appreciated immensely. I hope we can work together again in the future.


Editor’s note: Dr Viani Djeundje Biatat, the event organiser said, “Our men’s meeting with Andy went very well. The feedback received from the attendees was extremely positive. In particular, the attendees enjoyed Andy’s approach: Talk followed by discussion. It was such a pleasure; we will not hesitate to invite Andy again in the future.

PEP Talk Podcast With Richard Gibb

During the periods of restrictions we’ve had during the pandemic, some churches have become very creative with their outreach activities. Today Andy speaks with the pastor of a small church plant about their “drive-in church” and Christmas carols on the back of a tractor and trailer. Full of ideas and enthusiasm, it’s great to hear how a small church is having a big impact.

With Richard Gibb PEP Talk

Our Guest

Richard Gibb is on the leadership and preaching team at Loch Leven Church in Kinross. He is married to Alison and works as a Director for a management consultancy firm. Richard, who helps lead activities within the new church, studied Theology at Wheaton College near Chicago and at the University of St Andrews. He swims each day and had a mid-life crisis a couple of years ago when he took up judo!

About PEP Talk

The Persuasive Evangelism Podcast aims to equip listeners to share their faith more effectively in a sceptical world. Each episode, Andy Bannister (Solas) and Kristi Mair (Oak Hill College) chat to a guest who has a great story, a useful resource, or some other expertise that helps equip you to talk persuasively, winsomely, and engagingly with your friends, colleagues and neighbours about Jesus.

THE NEGATIVE EXPERIENCE GAP 1

In our house growing up it was a weekend ritual to watch “The Waltons” – an American drama with a family of three generations living under one roof during the 1920s and 30s.  One of the ensemble characters was the Reverend Matthew Fordwick.  Fresh out of Bible College, he made quite an impression on the quiet little village with his hell fire and brimstone sermons, screamed at the top of the voice: “REPENT!”  However, it wasn’t a good impression – his preaching scared the children and hardened the religiously apathetic father, John Walton.  Only after a public moral failure and being granted a second chance by the village did his character mellow and his preaching begin to reflect more of God’s grace.

Sadly, not only have Christians had bad experiences doing evangelism; but non-Christians have had bad experiences of Christian evangelists.  Many of us will have had friends or family members tell us upon discovering we are a Christian: “Oh I hope you’re not like… [fill the gap]”.  Such experiences can cool our enthusiasm for speaking about our faith in Christ – because we can assume the person is closed to considering the gospel, or because we are afraid of being lumped in the same category as the Westboro Baptist Church.

But what if I told you there is a way to talk about Jesus without being offensive?

Although the gospel is an offensive message, we ought not to be offensive as its messengers.  I think that the media mogul Marshall McLuhan is right when he observes that the ‘medium’ matters as well as the ‘message’.  The apostle Peter agrees.  In his famous passage exhorting Christians to be prepared for gospel conversations he adds: “Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect” (v.15b-16).

Someone who has helped me bridge the negative experience gap is the secular psychologist Jonathan Haidt.  He makes the case that human beings are more than brains on a stick.  Instead we are powerfully directed and influenced by our hearts (emotions and desires) and not just our heads (reason and logic).  He writes: “We are emotional actors! We are highly intuitive beings who act first, and justify later. Our beliefs, convictions, and values are far less “rational” than we imagine”.  That’s why, no matter how much of an expert you are in health matters, the allure of the box of doughnuts is so difficult to resist.

Central to all of Haidt’s work is the image of the Elephant with a Rider perched on its back.  If you imagine: our emotions/desires/intuitions are like the elephant, while our intellectual reasoning is like the rider perched on top.  While the rider has a certain control over the elephant’s course and direction, if the elephant decides to do its own thing (responding to something it sees or smells or hears nearby) then there is very little the rider can do about it.  The elephant is much larger and stronger than the rider perched on its back.

The subtitle of Haidt’s book “The Righteous Mind” reveals one of the questions that animates his work: “Why good people are divided by politics and religion”.  He is distressed by the growing polarisation and decline of civility in western societies – where people regard those who disagree with them as dangerous.  Haidt argues that these divides in politics will not be bridged by facts and figures alone.  Rather he traces this partisanship down to the breakdown of community and relationships with people who see the world differently to us (and warns that our social media echo chambers have only escalated this problem at an exponential rate).

So Haidt suggests that if you want to get people to consider your point of view and perhaps changing their own mind, then you need to do more than talk to their Rider with facts and arguments, you also need to appeal to their Elephant.  How?  Well Haidt in the 21st century makes this suggestion that I believe runs parallel to what Peter wrote in the 1st century:

“The elephant can be steered by the presence of other friendly elephants: Do you want to influence the people who disagree with you? You have to talk to their elephants. The main way we change our minds on moral, political or religious issues is by interacting with other people. We are terrible at seeking evidence that challenges our own beliefs—others must do us that favour. We are good at finding errors in other people’s beliefs. But the interactions must be civil. When discussions are hostile, the elephant leans away and the rider works frantically to rebut the opponent’s charges. But if there is affection, admiration, and trust, the elephant leans in and the rider tries to find truth in the other person’s arguments. The elephant may not usually change in response to objections from its own rider, but it may be steered by the mere presence of other friendly elephants”

This reflects Haidt’s own testimony.  Although he was a secularist he experienced a change of mind about the value of the Christian faith after his experience of welcoming church communities during his field research.  As he has reflected elsewhere: “When your heart is open, then your mind is open”.  As the old saying goes: people want to know that you care before they care about what you know.

So what does any of this have to do with evangelism and apologetics?  Well one of the ways in which apologetics goes wrong is when you start thinking that your job is to WIN ARGUMENTS with people rather than to WIN PEOPLE for Christ.

Haidt’s image of the elephant and its rider reminds us the significance of leading with compassion and concern for people, before seeking to share the reasons for our hope in the gospel – so they have open hearts and open minds to consider what we have to share about Christ.

It might be that as we grow in relationships with people that we discover that there are significant hurts and bad experiences of abusive churches or hypocritical Christians in their past.  It may even be that we discover that there are things that we have done or ways in which we have been perceived by colleagues, friends or family as offensive or insensitive.  In those cases we may need to apologise and ask for forgiveness – confessing that all Christians are sinners in need of the pardoning grace of Jesus, acknowledging that churches are hospitals for fellow sick people (rather than museums for saints) in need of the Great Physician, embracing that we are merely beggars telling other beggars where to find bread.  For one of my friends, whose father was converted late in life, it was only when he realised the extent to which his unbelieving father had felt judged by his believing son and apologised, that the door was reopened to look into the gospel.  So let’s ask for God’s help to build bridges across the negative experience gap to connect with people and tear down barriers of offence that we have unwittingly erected ourselves.

The European Leadership Forum (ELF)

Earlier in the year I had the opportunity to speak at the European Leadership Forum (ELF). That is a conference which brings Christians from right across Europe together to teach, equip and train them in everything from evangelism to apologetics to theology to preaching and much more! It is an amazing conference!

Because of the ongoing Covid-related restrictions on international travel, the conference was online this time. In some ways that actually increased the richness of the event as it meant they had people from other continents joining them for the first time.

I spoke at three ELF sessions this time.

They asked me to speak firstly on ‘short and sharable messages on digital media’. Friends of Solas will know that we have our Short Answers videos that have been viewed somewhere between 1.5 and 2 million times (it’s hard to track the numbers!). ELF asked me to think through what we do when we communicate through short answers and how can we teach that to others. So we talked about the rationale behind Short Answers, that is creating video pieces which are short, succinct, accessible, free of Christian jargon. We talked about the content of Short Answers and the way in which they take people’s questions and objections and respond to them; then how hard we have worked to get people to share them. After all, it’s one thing to create a good resource, it’s quite another to get it seen! Another critical part of the Short Answers series is that they are free to view. It’s really important not to hold back gospel resources but to get them out there. So it was great to share so much of what we have learnt through Short Answers and we pray that as a result others will be stimulated to be creative in digital space in different contexts across Europe.

Here’s an example of a Short Answers video.

My second session was entitled, “5 steps for answering any really tough question”. In that session I really wanted to stress that rather than trying to learn complex, detailed answers to every tough question there are five steps that we can work through whenever a tough question arises. It begins with the importance of really listening to, and connecting with the questioner. It continues with giving the questioner cause to think about or even question their own worldview. So for example if someone says, “how can you believe in a good God when there is evil in the world?” then its worth getting them to think about atheism. Can you meaningfully use words like “good” and “evil” if we live in an atheistic universe? The next step is to think about a biblical worldview and how the Bible sheds light upon the question and then critically how we connect that to Jesus. we need to show people difference that the gospel makes to the question being posed. Then lastly we looked at the importance of connecting people to good resources.

My third session at ELF was about “Joined-Up Evangelism” which was about helping people to connect their deepest longings to the gospel. We live in a world in which so many people are just apathetic about God and faith – but a lot of Christian apologetics has focussed on how to answer hostile atheists and their objections. But what if your friends don’t have objections, but are just apathetic and disinterested. So in this session, I looked at the way that those deep longings that our friends have for things like justice, beauty, meaning, truth, identity, significance and value (the list goes on and on!), only make sense and join up in a coherent when seen through the Christian faith. We looked at that with the help of the great Christian thinker from a few centuries ago, Blaise Pascal, who said, “Talk about the gospel in such a way that good people wish it were true – and then show them that it is.” Sometimes we leap to the ‘show them that it is’ stage, but people aren’t interested in engaging with evidence for the resurrection of Jesus yet. What they want to know is what difference Christianity will make. So in that talk I showed that Christianity makes a massive difference to all the things we humans are wired to care about.

Have a look at the European Leadership Forum website, because many of the talks given there by me and loads of others are available there. We look forward to working with the ELF more in the years to come.

The Terrible Consequences of Atheism

Why does atheism have such terrible consequences? With the help of several famous atheist thinkers, Andy Bannister explores the implications of atheism for human value and dignity, freedom, and for meaning itself. If all the things that you care most about actually only make sense if Christianity is true, maybe it’s time to give Jesus a closer look.

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